Principal — Good Structures
I previously co-founded and served as Executive Director at Wild Animal Initiative, and was the COO of Rethink Priorities from 2020 to 2024.
I think it would be pretty hard for me to make that trade off in a workplace context (I think I'm still a deep sucker for impact and in any real version of this is X would be whatever the organization is indifferent towards and I'd donate it). If you forced me to in some hypothetical I'd guess X is quite low for many junior roles (<$10k), but higher for more mid/senior roles (>$50k?). But I think something like the following are true:
I've definitely heard speciesism used both ways, but I think it's usually used without much reference to an exact view, but as a general "vibe" (which IMO makes it a not particularly useful word). But, I think people in the EA-side of the animal advocacy world tend to lean more toward the "it's discriminatory to devalue animals purely because they aren't a member of the human species" definition. I'd guess that most times its used, especially outside of EA, it's something more like the "it's discriminatory to not view all animals including humans as being of equal value" view but with a lot of fuzziness around it. So I'd guess it is somewhat context dependent on the speaker?
Sorry to just see this!
Not really, primarily because I don't think the animal welfare world currently has the organizational competency to do any of them successfully at that scale, and not shoot itself in the foot while doing so, with the potential exception of the advance market commitments. I don't think the existing groups have the organizational competency to handle the ~$200M they already receive well, and think the majority that money is already being spent in expectedly worse ways than giving to GiveWell top charities, even if the best animal stuff is incredibly cost-effective. I think that the movement could get there at some point. But if I imagine that much money going to any existing group to be spent in the next 2 years I think it would mostly be wasted.
I think many of these ideas seem feasible in the longrun, and are viable candidates for what to try, though I just generally think that farmed animal welfare is significantly less tractable than wild animal welfare or invertebrate welfare in the longrun, so would rather the funds went to scaling those fields instead of farmed animal welfare. Also, it is not obvious to me that lots of these ideas will beat out global health charities, though I think blue sky thinking is good.
Also just generally, most of those ideas are ones that don't need to be implemented at scale? E.g. Healthier Hens doesn't seem like it has been able to demonstrate that it is cost-effective to donors at a small scale. Why would scaling it up 1000x go better? It seems like if these ideas could absorb $100M, many could be tried now. The one that hasn't been tried at that scale is advance market commitments, but I think the track record for alternative proteins doesn't look great in general right now, and it isn't obvious to me that R&D is the main barrier — see the margarine issues.
I also generally think lots of untried ideas look good on paper, but will probably not end up being effective if tried. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try them, but I think the bar has to be higher than "beats GiveWell in expectation from current evidence," because the uncertainty is also a lot higher.
I think that if I were allocating this funding, there is a very low chance I'd choose to allocate any significant portion of it to farmed animal welfare, given that it isn't nearly as neglected as other larger scale animal issues, and I don't think there are good opportunities on the horizon at scales larger than OpenPhil's animal welfare budget. If OpenPhil stopped funding animal welfare entirely, I'd likely want to see something like $50M going to farmed animal welfare, and almost entirely to corporate campaigns for shrimp as well as some cage-free clean up work, and maybe something in the near future on fish that no one has figured out yet.
If I had to guess at "the fastest way we could spend $100M on animals extremely effectively", I'm think it will be something like putting some research into insecticide interventions and scaling them a lot, and definitely nothing implemented by existing farmed animal groups. If there was anything in the farmed animal space, it would be research, but again - I'm skeptical there are good opportunities beyond what OpenPhil can already fund.
I feel pretty disappointed by a lot of the above - I spent several years professionally working on corporate campaigns, and am as animal friendly as they come, but I've just heavily decreased my confidence in the actual scale of tractable opportunities to improve farmed animal welfare as a whole over the last few years — in large part because it seems like very little has worked despite lots of money being poured into the space.
There are 7 days left to sign up for the first month of this experiment!
As of right now, the marginal $25 influences the allocation of about $253 in expectation.
Nice - yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if that period is slower than the last ~5 years, as a lot of the capital that has gone into the space seems like it has been spent, and it doesn't seem like recent capital inflows have been as high. My 4-7x guess is based on a crude estimate done by Sagar Shah of how much production capacity can be bought with the capital that companies have available to do it, with a delay baked in for construction time.
What do you mean by "invest" here?
I meant more literally, put $100M in an investment account to save for good future animal opportunities vs spending on the best global health interventions today. I'm not certain it's actually a 50/50 item, but was trying to find a mid point.
Maybe there are better global health interventions that can absorb $100M over time than GiveWell recommendations, though.)
I don't really know enough about global health work to say - but I'd guess there are some novel medical things seem plausibly able to:
Yes correct - just the Insects as Food and Feed industry. Though note these estimates were from 2020 - my best guess is that there are at least 4-7x as many insects farmed by the industry today (mainly because it's going through a lot of industrialization / scale up, and a bunch of new major factories have opened in the last few years).
Yeah, I think that's basically what I was thinking (specifically, starting an insecticide charity, or similar project focused on implementing a WAW intervention)