A distinction I've found useful is "object-level" vs "social reality". They are both adjectives that describe types of conversation/ ideas.
Object-level discussions are about ideas and actions (e.g. AI timelines, the mechanics of launching a successful startup). Object-level ideas are technical, empirical, and often testable. Object-level refers to what ideas are important or make sense. It is focused on truth-seeking and presenting arguments clearly.
Social reality discussions are about people and organisations (e.g. Will MacAskill, Open Philanthropy). Social reality is more meta, more abstract, and less testable than object-level. Social reality refers to which people are influential/powerful (and what they think), how to network with people, how to persuade people.
Object-level: What's the probability of extinction this century?
Social reality: What does Toby Ord think is the probability of extinction this century?
I have found it very helpful to start labelling whether I'm in object-level conversation mode vs social reality conversation mode. It helps me notice when I'm deferring without having thought about it (e.g. "well, Will MacAskill says [x]" instead of asking myself what I think about [x]), or when I fall into a mode of chit-chatting about the who's-who of EA, instead of trying to truth-seek (of course, chit chatting sometimes is fine -- I just want to be intentional about when I'm doing it).
And social reality isn't necessarily bad, but it's helpful to flag when a conversation enters "social reality mode."
I do think it's good for many/more/most conversations to centre around the object-level. I am personally trying to move my ratio more towards object-level.
(This was a core theme of an Atlas camp I attended, which I found extremely valuable. The above definitions are loosely based on a message from Jonas, but I didn't run them by him before posting.)
I’m concerned about too much EA meta conversation — about worlds where most of EA dialogue is talking about EAs talking about EAs (lots of social reality and not enough object-level).
These sorts of convos are often very far removed from {concrete things that help the world}, and I worry about them taking away attention from more important ones.
I think it’s probably much better (for the world) for conversations to stay focused on the real world, object-level claims and arguments.
Part of me wants to flesh this thought out properly soon. But even this conversation is meta! And I'm trying to encourage/ focus more on object-level ideas. So do I write it? I'm not sure.
where defensible view contains details you personally can defend, and delegated view includes other people's views and whatever factor of delegation you feel is appropriate
A distinction I've found useful is "object-level" vs "social reality". They are both adjectives that describe types of conversation/ ideas.
Object-level discussions are about ideas and actions (e.g. AI timelines, the mechanics of launching a successful startup). Object-level ideas are technical, empirical, and often testable. Object-level refers to what ideas are important or make sense. It is focused on truth-seeking and presenting arguments clearly.
Social reality discussions are about people and organisations (e.g. Will MacAskill, Open Philanthropy). Social reality is more meta, more abstract, and less testable than object-level. Social reality refers to which people are influential/powerful (and what they think), how to network with people, how to persuade people.
I have found it very helpful to start labelling whether I'm in object-level conversation mode vs social reality conversation mode. It helps me notice when I'm deferring without having thought about it (e.g. "well, Will MacAskill says [x]" instead of asking myself what I think about [x]), or when I fall into a mode of chit-chatting about the who's-who of EA, instead of trying to truth-seek (of course, chit chatting sometimes is fine -- I just want to be intentional about when I'm doing it).
And social reality isn't necessarily bad, but it's helpful to flag when a conversation enters "social reality mode."
I do think it's good for many/more/most conversations to centre around the object-level. I am personally trying to move my ratio more towards object-level.
(This was a core theme of an Atlas camp I attended, which I found extremely valuable. The above definitions are loosely based on a message from Jonas, but I didn't run them by him before posting.)
This relates to a caveat in my recent post:
Part of me wants to flesh this thought out properly soon. But even this conversation is meta! And I'm trying to encourage/ focus more on object-level ideas. So do I write it? I'm not sure.
I feel like defining a separate term for this may be better. Maybe:
Integrated view = defensible view + delegated view
where defensible view contains details you personally can defend, and delegated view includes other people's views and whatever factor of delegation you feel is appropriate
Can you reword some of this